You are welcome to look at the talkback but please consider that this article is over 6 years old before posting.
Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - What the Heck was ID-0 About?
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
FilthyCasual
Posts: 2217 |
|
|||
Like every other anime they seize. |
||||
|
||||
|
DamianSalazar
Posts: 726 |
|
|||
Don't mean to be a buttkisser, but that isn't true for LWA, Ajin, and SDS. |
||||
|
||||
Wrangler
 Posts: 1346 |
|
|||
|
Wouldn't have been as bad if they had MORE episodes to flesh out everything. 12 episodes is something too rushed when it comes to Hard Scifi.
What a waste |
||||
|
||||
relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
|
|||
They aren't usually quite this slow. It's a shame to see it happen though. To be fair, it will be watched by more people on Netflix, and it likely wouldn't have received much fanfare even if it was released during its original season. |
||||
|
||||
|
Chrono1000
|
|
|||
|
I had forgotten about this show until today but I might give it a try since cute girls and robots with human minds talking about existentialism sounds like an amusing combination. I get the feeling that they were trying to increase their audience by casting a wide net which is understandable since serious scifi is a tough sell.
|
||||
Kougeru
 Posts: 5532 |
|
|||
|
I would've probably watched it if they released it on a weekly basis when it originally aired. But by the time it went to Netflix, reviews and such about it being utter garbage already pushed me away.
|
||||
|
||||
DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15501 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
|
|||
|
I think that this was a good analysis of ID-O. I myself was quite interested in its sci-fi setting, but it had too many elements that it kind of became a mess, with a number of unexplored elements, and leaving behind the heroine in place of Ido.
I actually wanted it to be the new BBK/BRNK, which I am actually quite the fan of, with many interesting characters that can capture scenes, with fairly multi-faceted characteristics, and I think aptly able to switch between action and comedy. Taking advantage of some stylistic choices that series landed on which worked well as a blend of CG and general anime aesthetic. But it kind of turned out fairly boring. |
||||
|
||||
|
jroa
Posts: 537 |
|
|||
|
Frankly, I have to openly disagree with several of the specific views and blanket statements about ID-0 expressed in this column in terms of both description accuracy, personal opinion and argumentation. In other words, unlike DuskyPredator above...no, I don't think was a very good analysis at all. Truth be told, I felt this column was kind of sloppy.
Granted, some of that might be originated in a difference of expectations and tastes, which is inevitable, plus the fact this column is meant (at least in theory) to come across as a casual exchange....but I almost feel like we weren't watching the same show or, if nothing else, somehow our experiences ended up in quite opposite places. It's going to be very easy for a number of viewers with negative opinions like Wrangler and other similar forum posters to simply nod and instinctively agree with everything stated in this column, I am sure, but I still think it's fair to link to this positive write-up by hosannaexcelsis as a real dissenting opinion from a critical perspective. Given that there isn't much of a contrast between Jabob and Nick here, since they're more or less on the same page after all, I want to stress that isn't the only possible kind of informed reaction to this series. If you want to check out some more casual opinions, there's also a few positive reviews available elsewhere, such as those on MAL and this one. ----------------------------------------------------------------- That kind of opening salvo requires me to address some of the specifics before moving on. Otherwise, this would be nothing more than a hit-and-run from a disgruntled poster. I am certain that conclusion will still remain, in the eyes of some readers, but I still hope to appeal to some of the more open-minded individuals. First, Jacob's initial remark about Proper Nouns already rubs me the wrong way, to be completely honest with you, because it is perhaps the most delegitimizing thing you can say about a sci-fi universe. People usually aren't trying to praise Star Trek when they made equivalent comments about it. However, I actually think the first two episodes of ID-0 did a decent job of combining explicit moments of exposition about the setting (such as the brief opening crawl, various remarks from the cast or the literal presentation about the Mind Transfer technology in ep 2) with more contextual material. No, you don't need to know the meaning of every single proper noun, but in my opinion all the important ones were made sufficiently clear through the actions of the characters and their situations. As a matter of fact, I would argue there were multiple instances of "showing" rather than "telling" throughout the series and that remains an entirely legitimate way of communicating additional information, even purely implicitly on occasion, rather than a flaw. For me, this made the setting feel more alive in a natural manner and helped keep my interest high rather than low. That's part of why, right from the start, I didn't share Jacob's apparent confusion or disinterest. Second, Maya was the point of view character rather than the actual protagonist. Mind you, I can understand why not everyone is a fan of that type of storytelling choice. It does risk disappointing the people who wanted to see something different. She isn't the main focus of the narrative, so we don't really get any new information about her personal background after the first few episodes, but the story does allow us to learn more about her as a person through her interactions with Ido, Alice, Grayman and the rest of the crew in general. It's not the most innovative characterization, just a standard gradual progression from aversion to sympathy with sporadic bursts of tension, but the story does care enough to show us her feelings and changing mindset in the midst of larger events. In other words, Maya does get some smaller moments that focus directly on her. Therefore, I don't think she needed to be explicitly connected to the so-called Big Plot Reveal and there is also no writing crime in serving as the "moral support" for Ido during the last episodes. Third, I definitely disagree with Nick's claim about there being two premises battling for supremacy. It's such an odd claim in my eyes. Right after the first episode ends, the story starts introducing the central mysteries and related fictional lore, while various new developments then begin to organically build on what came before. On a structural level, there's enough proof of foreshadowing and connective tissue in the writing to dismiss the idea that it is a "mess" with no sense of direction or organization. I admit that ID-0 may be considered as very dense for a 12 episode television show, which brings the unfortunate side effect of increasing the risk of confusion among any viewers who might feel bored or lose track of certain details along the way due to disinterest or distractions, but I never felt personally lost. In the midst of the larger narrative context, Ido does go through some "brooding" about his identity, to be sure, but he's not doing so out of nowhere, unprovoked or for no observable reason that would objectively alienate the viewer. Rather, it's the direct result of events that are understandably fueling the guy's worries, which merits a reaction. For that matter, I actually did enjoy the revelation about Ido's identity. In fact, episodes 9, 10 and 11 had some of my favorite moments in terms of both content and execution. For me, that was absolutely worth my time. The truth about Ido wasn't exactly a complete surprise, precisely because it made a lot of sense in light of the evidence, but... unlike Jacob, who merely found the entire dilemma to be hilarious in retrospect, I feel that the extent of the contrast between the guy's current self and former identity did have some interesting thematic implications. Even though a longer show might have explored them in greater depth, I felt what was presented here still provided food for thought and turned out to be satisfactory. Fourth, it's true the second half of the show left little time for lengthy contemplation, but the other characters still expressed their opinions about the ongoing situation. We see this most clearly with Grayman and Amanza/Rick, for instance, while even Karla gets some unexpected focus when her loyalty is tested. Together with some earlier scenes, we gained a little insight into their respective motivations when that happened. I found those small moments to be more interesting than Jacob or Nick realized, and also felt the characters had more distinguishable personalities than what this column suggests. It may be impossible to give every character the same amount of relevance as Ido, especially within only 12 episodes rather than 24, yet I think it's an exaggeration to claim that nobody else ever mattered. Fifth, I would argue that the narrative gradually increases its scope and stakes as the story progresses. It's not until the final arc that wider galactic-scale events become important. We do get to see a few early glimpses of shadowy machinations happening behind the scenes, but the bulk of the story keeps its primary attention centered on what Ido's crew is facing and what those events mean for them, one encounter at a time, rather than attempting to dwell on any distant political implications. When they do play a limited yet higher profile role towards the conclusion, that transition was only made possible because of their already established connections to character-based concerns and revelations, not the other way around. In fact, that's almost entirely the opposite of what happens in many Gundam storylines, where the larger political or military significance of events is often made explicitly relevant and usually remains paramount right from the beginning. There is no formal war or military conflict going on here and, in the long run, the greatest threats are space phenomena rather than conventional enemy forces, by and large, so I would actually be more inclined to compare this show to, say, Gunbuster or Gargantia in terms of that subject matter. Finally, I guess it's about time to attempt to answer the question from the cynically-tinged title of this week's column. What was ID-0 about? To put in simple terms, the series was about what it means to be human and having an identity, wrapped around the space adventures of a group of miners/pirates running from both the law and facing alien space phenomena. Yes, I know the question was mostly rhetorical. 
-------------------------------------------------------- By the way, Nick...please let me try to clarify one thing about what you heard or read in order to avoid further confusion. Alice didn't exist way back when they were still in the middle of initial planning, but nothing indicates that there was a sudden change during the final production. Kuroda simply joked that he included Alice as an overreaction to claims that they were initially aiming to make a show for an older-male-oriented audience, but then they heard those same folks claim that she was too young. This is kind of amusing, yet that doesn't mean ID-0's script was written without her. She isn't much of an actual character at all, I will grant that, yet she is quite key to the show as produced. Sigh...forgive me for saying this, but Jacob's reference to Active Raid rings especially hollow to me other than as a dismissive throwaway label. How many people actually sat through all of Active Raid? I did and the two shows are very different in content, structure, execution, etc. Their problems and virtues are not remotely the same. In fact, one of the single biggest positives of ID-0 for me was that it had a much clearer narrative focus and cared more about characterization than Active Raid ever did. That is, more was done with the setting and characters of ID-0 in 12 episodes than what Active Raid did with its world and cast in 24 (in a better universe, their lengths would be switched around). Anecdotically speaking, I've even seen people who couldn't stand a couple of episodes of that earlier show manage to get through this one with little or no problems, so this isn't just crazy old me speaking. Not surprisingly, they were also made for different audiences. ID-0 aims for fans of specifically old-school sci-fi adventure anime with an ultimately serious story, while Active Raid was meant for those who enjoy Power Rangers-like shows and juvenile parodies of the same genre such as Akibaranger. And there you go. I thought Theron's middling review was slightly harsh but reading this one-sided exchange makes that earlier text come across as generous in comparison. Frankly, I just wish some of these unpopular yet underrated shows were treated better around these parts. ANN is not obligated to do so, obviously, but I digress. Perhaps there will be people with similar tastes to my own who will read what I had to say and realize that there is room for debate about this series, in addition to giving ID-0 a chance and maybe being pleasantly surprised it's not as bad in their eyes as Jacob, Nick and other folks believe, but that's my wishful thinking speaking. |
||||
|
||||
|
joeydoa
Posts: 121 |
|
|||
Hear! Hear! I absolutely agree. In my mind, ANN is infamous for their reviews of anime series especially the preview guide. I have been guilty myself of giving any sort of credence to ANN reviews and those on other sites in dismissing a series, only to try it out later on and find it to be fantastic. I agree that Goro's work is outstanding both as a storyteller and director - Active Raid was very good and the direction of Code Geass and Planetes was extraordinary. Too many series to mention, but among those ANN dissuaded me initially from watching was Kemono Friends (Fantastic), Time Travel Girl (Outstanding), and Frame Arms Girl (very good). |
||||
|
||||
|
relyat08
Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
|
|||
I mean, these are all just opinions guys. It's not like they are deliberately sh*tting on shows you like because they want them to fail. They are just giving their own opinions. And I, for one, appreciate that. I don't agree with each of them on everything(hint: they are individuals and they don't agree with each other on everything either! That's why following a bunch of different critics is helpful), but I know what to take into account and how to apply it to my own anime watching. Follow a few critics for some time and figure out where you have overlap and where you don't. That's how you successfully utilize media criticism. People also need to stop taking criticism against shows they like quite so personally. |
||||
|
||||
|
jroa
Posts: 537 |
|
|||
I can't speak for joeydoa, but I'll address some of the statements above. Of course, having different views is all fine and good. It's to be expected. But just as well, opinions that disagree with those of the site staff and contributors should also be accepted or at least tolerated. I don't think anyone has stepped outside of the rules here. Media criticism isn't and shouldn't be limited to famous reviewers or aspiring professionals who are being paid or at least recognized for it. Even the late Roger Ebert wrote reviews that deserved to be questioned and dissected by his readers. Here's a quick example of one detailed reply. Anyone can intervene in the conversation and hopefully more people will make up their own mind with greater freedom after having access to additional information and new perspectives. I don't want everyone to agree with me either, mind you, because an absolute uniformity of views would be highly uninteresting after the simple confirmation it provides. Said freedom also includes expressing the wish for a greater diversity of opinions when it comes to talking about shows where there isn't a huge vocal fanbase ready to offer counter-points of varying quality and quantity. In such cases, like the current series discussed here, it's arguably proportionally more important for someone, even a low profile and boring old fool like myself, to step in and offer another outlook even if it ends up being a thankless task. I would have written a response to this column, either way, but I can't deny that some of the language and terms employed didn't sit too well with me. That probably increased the length of my reply by a fair amount. Even so, I tried to focus on the message, rather than the messenger, because I don't think liking or disliking a work of fiction makes you a better or worse person. |
||||
|
||||
|
relyat08
Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
|
|||
|
^While you came across as slightly accusatory in both this thread, and the series review, you have done more than enough to articulate and justify your position, which is definitely what we should be looking for, so I don't really take issue with your comments(although they are pretty dang long, to be honest!). I was mostly referring to joeydoa, who's comment is mostly just "yeah, these guys really suck and we shouldn't pay any attention to their thoughts", which is kind of opposite to how we should approach this. Lets share our thoughts, like you did, not put down other people who disagree.
|
||||
|
||||
|
joeydoa
Posts: 121 |
|
|||
|
I have been reading ANN for several years now, and enjoy a few of the reviews but find the majority to be overtly cynical and hypercritical. I think a moderate approach with a greater diversity of tastes would be better especially as anime is a niche subject to begin with. It would be far better to encourage viewers to watch a variety of anime series than discouraging them. Having a reviewer that dislikes a genre reviewing that type of show is sort of pointless and disingenuous.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Chrono1000
|
|
|||
|
||||
|
relyat08
Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
|
|||
I see them do exactly that multiple times in every preview guide. "such-and-such is not for me, but if you like such-and-such, you will probably like it" is basically a stock phrase at this point. And that's not a bad thing either. I agree, a good reviewer should give me an idea as to whether or not I will like something even if they don't. And that is exactly what happens when I read the vast majority of the reviews here. Maybe it's because I've read most of them for a long enough time now that I understand what they like and where I align with them, but I don't think it's that hard. Even in a scathing review of something on this site, it's usually pretty easy to see what the appeal was and what the show was trying to do.
If you're referring to the preview guide(the only place where that happens), having people who don't like a particular genre watching those shows, along with people who do, is actually really helpful. Like I mentioned before, find out who's criticism resonates with you, or who's thought process you can appreciate, and following their writing. If you like Theron, read his impressions, if you like Jacob, follow his, etc etc. You don't need to agree with even a majority of the opinions being shared(to be honest, not even a single one) as long as you can get something out of their thoughts. And, to be honest, I think the reviews here are not even remotely "cynical" or "hypercritical", they are all generally quite even-handed. And over the last few years, have gotten significantly better too! Some reviewers are a little more abrasive than others, but that's their style and personality, you either dig it, or you don't. And if you don't, you've got like 7 other writers to follow. Also, returning to the first sentence, Zac brings it up on the podcast all the time, they don't have people who don't like a genre review shows in that genre(unless there is no other option). That's counter-intuitive. If a show gets a bad review, it probably wasn't very well received by a good portion of the audience it was trying to appeal to(on topic, ID-0 really has not been well-received by most people). |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group