Forum - View topicINTEREST: Tokyo Babylon 2021 Character Designs Appear to Reference K-Pop Group, Volks Doll
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olgita
Posts: 151 |
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...huh. Interesting.
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harminia
 Posts: 2003 Location: australia |
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Gohands......................................................come on, guys.............
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kyokun47
 Posts: 231 |
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Sorry, petty reply lol, but it's actually Red Velvet's "ReVe Festival Day 1" album and the Day 2 incident was for another release a few months later (indeed they were separate albums and indeed, it is weird naming lol).
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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Hokuto certainly had a variety of outlandish outfits in the manga but this one just didn't feel right when I saw it in the previous video. It was a bit outlandish, sure, but it wasn't really a CLAMP style. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was wrong with it but it felt off. Now I know why.
As for Subaru's onmyouji robes...they seemed fairly generic to me when I saw the earlier previews and concept art and they aren't out of place for the character either...but wow....just wow....how much more blatant of a ripoff can you have? And like Brand mentioned in the discussion for the earlier Moschino/Ikeda Riyoko topic it is truly mindboggling that people think they can get away with this kind of thing in the current year. Between the scrutiny of hardcore fans and technology like search-by-image there is simply no way this kind of thing will not get caught. Sure one can argue that certain traditional costumes or uniforms have a specific style that often look similar but this is identical down to every. last. detail. Who wouldn't make at least some changes to the costume one was copying, and it's not as if there isn't a pile of original source material to work off of either.... As much as I love Tokyo Babylon I am not holding my breath for this. If the character design, of all things, has to cut these kind of corners I don't have much hope for the rest. |
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Dian Z
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Ouch, even the pose is identical.
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AliceTheHare
 Posts: 70 Location: Los Angeles |
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If someone can explain to me why this is an issue I'd gladly listen, because so far I don't understand why it is. Since artists like Naoko Takeuchi and Hirohiko Araki have been using fashion photography for reference, if not out right emulating it down to the poses, for years but now it's suddenly an issue when a Clamp production does it.
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JennLegacy
Posts: 107 |
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Well that's the thing. So far, this adaptation seems to be a CLAMP production in name only. None of the members are anywhere to be seen in the show's staff listing despite usually being pretty hands-on with adaptations of their manga. It both explains a lot and raises even more questions about this show if anything. As for why this is bad: When Naoko and Araki do fashion inspired illustrations, they adapt it to work under their style. Even if the poses and outfits are similar, they are recreating them to work with how they themselves draw angles, character proportions, etc. They're paying homage. Here however, even the tiniest details like the placement of creases and accessories are the same as if they were traced. Think of it this way: you're asked to receate a piece of art in your style for an art class.The idea is to see how everyone puts their own spin on the piece, so the one guy who ended up just tracing it gets an F. It also doesn't help that this is apparently not the first time GoHands has done this... |
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harminia
Posts: 2003 Location: australia |
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I think one of the biggest issues here is: There are costume designs already, done by CLAMP. Why did they not use them? Like, the onmyoji-style outfit is right there, designed by CLAMP. There was no need to swipe a Volks doll outfit. He has a canonical outfit. Why didn't Gohands use it? I don't get it.
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VORTIA
 SubscriberPosts: 941 |
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Yeah, I'm afraid I have to agree with you. It feels like the internet tracing police are getting a bit out of hand. Clearly neither image was traced, & neither is a trace of another 2-D artist. Are we saying artists can't draw the world around them? Is it plagiarism to draw a Subaru instead of a made-up car model for your anime? Plagiarism is normally about stolen work, but nobody's stealing the work of a fashion designer here, they're simply drawing a thing they saw, no different than CLAMP drawing Tokyo Tower. The Onmyouji outfit isn't even all that unique, I'd bet you'd find a hundred like it if you go back through various works of fiction. |
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marshmallowpie
 Posts: 300 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada |
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I wanted to be positive about this anime, but the second trailer made me see reality and this doesn't help. No, they're not traced, but if you want to copy, why not... just copy the original manga designs? Instead of almost completely copying something without permission, or without any connection to the original work? I get that they'd want to update Hokuto's style, but honestly I found this outfit pretty boring for her. And with the onmyouji outfit, there's really no need to update it.
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nargun
Posts: 925 |
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"As if they were traced" does not mean "they were traced". [this above is important enough to warrant being on a line by itself] In this context it means that they weren't traced, but that the practical result [in some respect] is the same as it would be if they had been traced. "the result is X, as it would be if it were traced. [they weren't actually-technically traced, but the difference between what was done and actual-tracing made no impact of relevance]". The [some respect] here is referring to things like the composition, the colours, the detail design of the clothing. This is all within what the artist is supposed to be responsible for, so if they cheap out and copy that from a photo someone else took -- even if they don't trace or draw over the photo -- it's pretty bad. [if you copy it also means you're stuck with the composition the photo offers: a particular problem for comics and animation] Gonna be honest: adults are kinda expected to have some vague understanding of this sort of stuff. At least that it exists; notions of composition ["arrange these objects to look good, and then draw a still life"] are taught in school to young teenagers. |
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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There's a huge difference between getting inspiration or ideas from fashion (or whatever else) versus making a verbatim copy without crediting the source. Personally, I don't know anything about Takeuchi or Araki emulating fashion photography down to the pose since I don't follow them but if that's what they did then I'm just as opposed to that as I am to this. Is it really that hard to at least give credit to where the design came from? I don't even have a problem with them getting ideas from fashion or toys/models or whatever else....but c'mon, aren't these people artists rather than copy machines? Where is the creativity? One would expect they'd at least put some personal touches--or better yet, source-manga-specific touches to the designs, but no, it's just a carbon copy with no art or creativity involved. It may not be a literal tracing but it is functionally the same. Is it really that hard to put some personal touches on the design rather than making a 1:1 copy? I mean, even children in grade school copying each other's homework know not to copy the answers verbatim but instead to take the general conclusion and rewrite it in their own words. And like marshmallowpie stated why is there even a need to go looking at 3rd-party sources for inspiration? There's plenty of that in the original manga and artbooks already. But really my biggest puzzlement is that people think they won't get called out on this. Personally I'd never have noticed. I doubt most fans would. But the internet certainly will notice and that much is obvious. |
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VORTIA
Subscriber Posts: 941 |
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So someone who drew Tokyo Tower accurately, "as if it were traced" is a plagiarist, then? This is silly. There's no copyright on these things & it's completely natural to draw the world you see as an artist. Call me when they start marketing Tokyo Babylon branded outfits with the lifted styles..... |
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chex mix
 Posts: 415 |
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I thought clothing and dolls and such are trademarked? Which is why it's very bad to buy a bootleg copy from China at the flea market? |
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VORTIA
Subscriber Posts: 941 |
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It varies from place to place, but in the U.S. & in my understanding Japan as well, you can trademark a brand-name, logo or print, but you cannot copyright a design or style. |
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